Victor Davis Hanson: Trump’s USDA Is Coming for SNAP Scammers—and Democrats Aren’t Happy

Editor’s note: This is a lightly edited transcript of “Victor Davis Hanson: In His Own Words” from Daily Signal senior contributor Victor Davis Hanson. Subscribe to Hanson’s own YouTube channel to watch past episodes.

Victor Davis Hanson: What’s your budget now, your total budget versus what it was? Were you able to not have any increases at all, or did you— 

Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins: Oh yeah, no, we have been able to really … It’s interesting, and this is what, as I’m out in the country, and that’s been such an incredible blessing in this job, is to go back to my roots, wear boots and jeans, ride horses, sit with farmers, get out of Washington, D.C.  

I don’t really meet with the lobbyists. I don’t really meet with the trade associations, although they have some good people involved. 

I literally have books of—there’s a book right here in front of me—I have books of ideas from farmers, what we need to do to help them, and we’re implementing almost everything at this point when I get back, ongoing. 

But the budget is over $200 billion. It’s about $220 billion. 

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Hanson: Wow. 

Rollins: The biggest driver is food stamps. And thanks to congressional Republicans and, of course, our President [Donald] Trump’s leadership and our work, we are shrinking the food stamp program to ensure that those who need it actually get it. 

But for those—and, well, here’s what’s funny, Victor, on the food stamp side, because this is agriculture, but we do run that program, and it is our biggest budget item—the screaming from all the do-gooders on the left: Oh, you’re taking food out of hungry people’s mouths. 

And the way I respond to that is, listen, all we have done is require, if you’re gonna get a food stamp, you’re required to look for a job 20 hours a week. You’re required to volunteer 20 hours a week or required to work 20 hours a week. 

This is not draconian. We’re not kicking everyone off. We’re just asking you to get off the sofa and go look for a job. And, oh, by the way, if you’re disabled, have very young children, or are elderly, that doesn’t even apply to you. 

So, these changes alone, and then you take into account we’ve moved all the illegal aliens off. We’ve had a lot of fraud, which you’ve probably been tracking— 

Hanson: Yes. 

Rollins: —that we found. That’s been a big part. But we’ve gone from 43 million people on food stamps when I walked in the door to about 38 million today. 

Hanson: That’s pretty amazing. 

Rollins: So, we have moved millions of people. So, we’ve saved a lot of money there. 

Hanson: So then, we’ve had these big frauds on the state level in California and, of course, in Minnesota. The way that you inherited the agency, did it work where you gave the money and the state had to administer it, or were you able to administer it all the way to the recipient, or did the state step in? 

Rollins: So, here’s how the SNAP program works. Unlike almost every other federal government program, listen, as a 10th Amendment girl, I love giving the states the flexibility to run their own programs, right? This is what the founders intended. 

However, what had happened with SNAP—and because I had all these, what, 15, 20 years of work at the state level, I’m one of the few people that worked in the West Wing and then is running a federal government agency that really understands state policy and how to move all of these programs and how to put guardrails on them. 

And that was from a very red state, Texas, where we took it very seriously. Other states, like your California, see it as more of an incentive to get more illegal aliens, to get more voters, to buy voters off. So you have two very different approaches. 

But on SNAP, the way it was set up by Congress is it’s a federal government program, but it’s 100% state administered. 

And up until Trump’s second term, no one had ever asked for real accountability on it. And so, within the first hour—I was sworn in on Feb. 13 by Justice Clarence Thomas, right up there with Victor Davis Hanson, in my mind, a hero of epic proportions. 

And so, I had Justice Thomas swear me in and then immediately drove over at 6 p.m. with my family to [the U.S. Department of Agriculture]. He said the rules are you can’t really walk in your building until you’re actually sworn in. 

So, the teams had been there working, but I didn’t even walk in that building till the evening of Feb. 13. 

00 p.m., Day One, Night One, just a couple hours after being sworn in, I sent a letter to every governor in America saying: It’s a new day. Partner with us, but we gotta figure out why this program is costing so much, why the fraud is running rampant, why we’ve gone from—over a number of years under Joe Biden especially—why the program increased 40% in cost, and we’ve got to make sure the people that actually need these programs are getting them. 

And I had all the red governors and actually two Democrat governors say, yes, we want to be your partner. This is not political. I’m not trying to score political points. I’m not trying to win an election. I actually really want to do this with all of you. 

And then, of course, the other blue governors sued us, so we’re still in active litigation over … 

What we asked them to do was give us their data so we could help understand where all the fraud was coming from. 

And what we found, even from the red states, Victor, was astounding. Half a million people were getting more than one benefit more than once—so getting the same benefit more than once, I should say, sometimes five, six times across state lines. 

We found about 200,000 dead people or people using dead people’s Social Security numbers. We found luxury vehicles. We found—you can’t imagine what we found, and this was in the red states, which is stunning, ’cause I came from a red state. 

We worked really hard on accountability, but until Elon Musk, until [the Department of Government Efficiency]—another interesting piece of this—once we finished with DOGE late spring of Year One last year, I pivoted the DOGE team to this. 

I asked them all to stay and to help us figure this fraud out with SNAP, and they’ve done that, and it’s been really incredible. 

Hanson: Have you—do you ge t… What is the form of the pushback? Do you get Democratic congressmen, senators that call you up, or is it the media, or where does the— 

Rollins: All of the above. It’s all coordinated. 

Hanson: Coordinated? 

Rollins: It’s all coordinated. 

It’s all of the above, and it’s interesting, the congressional hearings, which most people in my position hate, because you gotta go and sit in front and let the Democrats just hammer you, and then it gets silly and then everyone, all the Left, is looking for their viral moment, so you get really stupid stuff. 

I have actually come to enjoy those back-and-forths, even with the Democrats, because it gives me the opportunity to have an exchange with them, and I don’t yell, and I don’t bring up your husband bought stock. 

I don’t do any of that. I don’t go off policy line. I just stay in the lane, and I say, listen, so-and-so Democrat from Minnesota, you can’t possibly look me in the eyes and say that the way Minnesota is running this program is OK. 

There’s not—maybe there’s one out of 100 Democrats that would actually agree that we should be funding some rapper’s luxury lifestyle. 

The last one was Shotti Dread. That’s literally a name. Shotti Dread, who we arrested a few weeks ago, had 9,000 calls from his office to the SNAP line, luxury cars, burning—literally burning money on his Instagram. 

These are the kind of people we’re arresting. No one in America—Republican, Democrat, black, Hispanic, white—no one thinks that this is how taxpayer dollars should be spent. 

So, having that engagement with some of these Democrats has been fun. I enjoy going on CNN and having these debates. 

And it’s hard for people to say, oh no, Brooke, we really think that Shotti Dread should have nine Porsches and burn money on Instagram. There are real problems in these programs, and we’re fixing them. 

Hanson: Do you think … I’m speaking from my farm in California, California’s the biggest state, and so, it’s obviously the biggest recipient in population, 41 million. 

Is California, in all of your executive actions, a special case, especially because it’s a one-party state, and it’s insane now, and 300,000 people are leaving. 

Is that your biggest challenge statewide? 

Rollins: There are a lot of these states for many different reasons, right? I’m fighting [Gov.] Kathy Hochul in New York on solar panels going over prime farmland. 

I’m fighting the state of Washington right now on what they’re doing with their ranchers, and they’re allowing these gray wolves, which shouldn’t even be on the endangered species list, to basically destroy their cattle herds. 

So, I’m battling that, but I don’t know that there’s anywhere in America that is as dysfunctional. 

Of course, you mentioned I have the Forest Service, so the wildfires. 

So, I am dealing with California now on multiple levels, and there is no more dysfunctional, anti-American government in America than in California, where Potter Valley is a tiny little community in California that I’ve been trying to help. 

They were gonna take all their water out—all their dams out— 

Hanson: Yes, I know it. I know it. 

Rollins: —because of some fish. 

It’s like you’re choosing your fish over people. It doesn’t make any sense, but it’s happening in your state, and it’s just heartbreaking to me. 

I do think there’s a long-term plan for California, and you’re gonna know a lot better than I, but you’ve got people that are willing to lean in and begin to lead. 

A long time ago, I wanted to build a Texas Public Policy Foundation in California with a 50-year plan, which is, I think, what it’s gonna take, and I was close, and then I got called into the first Trump White House and didn’t get a chance to do that. 

But I think that we’ve got to turn California around. It’s just—there’s no alternative. And I do believe it can be. 

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