Navigating the current dating scene is difficult. Between dating apps and the hookup culture, it can be extremely challenging to find a significant other and grow a healthy, lasting romantic relationship. 

But dating becomes a little easier once we determine “what our core values are,” says Caitlin Zick, co-director of Moral Revolution, a California-based ministry.

The mission of Moral Revolution is to “tell the world a better story about sex,” through resources such as books, podcasts, online courses, and other materials, Zick says.  

“We know that we’re living in a generation that is overwhelmed by lots of conflicting messages about love, lust, relationships, [and] sexuality. At Moral Revolution, we really seek to try to define God’s design for it,” she says. 

Caitlin Zick, co-director of Moral Revolution. (Photo: @sulainemae)

Zick joins the “Problematic Women” podcast to share her own story of struggling as a teen in a highly sexualized culture. She discusses practical tips for finding a significant other and growing a healthy dating relationship. Zick even offers advice for parents who are wondering how to discuss sex and dating with their kids. 

Listen to the podcast below or read the lightly edited transcript. 

Virginia Allen: I am so pleased to welcome to “Problematic Women” Cait Zick. Cait is the co-director of Moral Revolution and the author of “Look at You, Girl: Kickstart to Seeing Yourself the Way God Does.” Cait, thanks so much for being here.

Caitlin Zick: Thanks for having me. I’m superexcited to chat today.

Allen: Yeah, so this has been a little bit of a long time coming. We met over the summer at the Alliance Defending Freedom conference in Florida. Cait, I think the first thing that I noticed about you was just how authentic and real you are. It was like, “Oh, this girl, we need to get her on ‘Problematic Women.'”

Zick: Yeah, sometimes to a fault, probably.

Allen: No, not at all. It’s a really beautiful thing.

Zick: It’s going to be [too much information], basically. If you’re talking to me, you’re going to be like, “Wow, I didn’t know we were going there.”

Allen: Yeah, it’s going to be a real conversation today, heads up. So, I do want to throw it to you and ask you to share a little bit about what you all do at Moral Revolution. You and your husband, Cole, direct this ministry, this organization. Share what your mission is and what you all do.

Zick: Yeah. In the shortest version possible, I would say our mission is to tell the world a better story about sex. We know that we’re living in a generation that is overwhelmed by lots of conflicting messages about love, lust, relationships, sexuality.

At Moral Revolution, we really seek to try to define God’s design for it: What was the original design for sexuality, for marriage, for relationships?

We do that by trying to equip and empower people all over the world. We create resources, online, books, courses. We are in five different languages. You can find us on Instagram or online. There is lots of free blogs, podcasts, YouTube channel, all of the things, just really trying to tell the world a better story about sex, and that it’s not a bad word, that it’s, yes, from God, that it was his, what his intent was. We get really excited talking about all that.

Allen: Yeah. I love it. A lot of the ministry really flowed out of a book called “Moral Revolution” that Kris Vallotton wrote. I actually read that book when I was in youth group in high school. It gave me a great picture of relationships, of sex, of all of these big topics.

Cait, what was your journey? What is your story into, essentially, a job that is helping young people, helping adults, navigate relationships in a healthy way, understand sex from a biblical perspective? How did you end up doing what you’re doing now?

Zick: OK, you’ve probably seen that funny meme on Instagram or Pinterest. It’s not funny, but it’s very popular. It was, “Be who you needed when you were younger.” I would say that is why I’m here.

As a young teenage girl, my sexual activity began at age 11 or 12, and really just basing it off of everything the culture told me. I didn’t have a lot of conversations in the home about it. I didn’t have a lot of conversations in school. I wasn’t raised in a church that talked about it. So, it left me just basically basing all of my sexual theology around what I saw in the movies, the song lyrics we were singing.

It led me down this promiscuous path very quickly. And in lots of moments that I wasn’t enjoying, I just thought, “This is what girls do. This is what you’re supposed to do.” A quick way of summing it up would be to say there were moments of pressure in back seats, in movie theaters, in between the sheets that took me more years to get out of than it did to get into.

My span of this hypersexuality hookup culture for myself was from about 11 or 12 to 16, and those years were just filled with lots of hookups. My friends and I even had this little silver spiral notebook with a hiding place in my bedroom, and you would go in, and everybody had your own little section, and you would write the name of the guy you hooked up with.

It was like we equated the longer the list to winning. As a very competitive person, I was set to win. I just didn’t know what I was losing at the same time.

I really believed that being wanted was being worthy. I found my acceptance, affirmation, approval, love, everything, in how many times my pager was blowing up, because yes, that’s how old I am. It was before cellphones. I had a pink pager that was constantly clipped to my bikini. I thought it blowing up with booty calls meant that I was on top of the world. I thought I was winning at life.

It wasn’t until 16, when I had a pretty radical encounter with God, that I was like, “Oh, wow, there is something else. There is more to live for.”

That’s when I entered the purity conversation and really started … . In high school, I didn’t read any books that school made me read. I was that girl. I found all the Cliffs Notes. But then I just started going through a Christian bookstore and finding as many books on purity, sexuality, dating, marriage, everything that I could read, and I just started really eating them up, because I was like, “What do I believe?” [Rapper] DMX told me, “Keep it on the down low. Nobody has to know.” [The movie] “American Pie” told me … . I was basing it off of everything that I knew.

I was really realizing that the truth about sex is so foreign because the lies are so familiar. I was not going to be able to figure out how to get out of these lies that I was bombarded in, swimming in, unless I turned up the truth, which took a lot of intentionality.

For me to be able to be on this other side this many years later, being able to create resources that hopefully are doing that same thing that I was seeking out as a young girl, is life for me.

Allen: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing your story, Cait. It’s really powerful. I think so many of us, we come from so many different backgrounds. We have so many different life experiences. When you meet someone, you don’t necessarily know what they’ve walked through, know their journey, how they’ve made it to the place that they are today. Thank you so much for sharing that.

Now, I know you are working with so many different individuals, with parents, with young people, who are trying to navigate the current relationship culture, the current sex culture, navigating social media, navigating dating apps. What is your advice to young people who are trying to make sense of the culture that we live in today and trying to make good choices within it?

Zick: Yeah. I think we have to figure out what our core values are as people, as a human being. Whether you’re listening and you are from the faith background like me, I’m going to say you’re going to go to the Bible. The Bible is your foundation for figuring out who you are, whose you are, what you want to live your life by. But even if not, you want to know what your core values are, because if you are dictated by this culture, then it is going to be a total mess.

It’s like a roller coaster of which way are we going, what are we believing, what are we saying today? I think if you have your core value set, then you know what the map looks like for you, and it’s not based on the newest and most recent opinions.

I think when it comes to that, you could even say, if you know your stance, then your life won’t be dictated by the circumstance. As a single woman or single guy knowing, “This is who I am. This is what I bring to the table. This is what I have to offer, and I know I’m healthy enough that in a dating relationship, I know I’m going to leave somebody better than I found them, and if I’m not ready for that, then I need to work on my personal healing, wholeness journey and figuring out who I am and what I need.

In culture, I think also we have to realize that we have been desensitized, and we think a lot of things are normal that the intention was not for them to be normal. We’re so bombarded with it on every angle. For me to look back and think about what I felt bombarded with as a 16-year-old, it’s increased exponentially with what we’re listening to and what we’re watching and what we’re seeing on a daily basis, that we have to return to the source and figure out what is it supposed to look like, and what are my boundaries to make sure that I stay in a healthy place?

Allen: When it comes specifically to single women, women who are dating, who are trying to navigate this, what do you think are some of the most consistent challenges that you’re hearing from them about things that they’re facing in regards to relationships, and then what are maybe some of the solutions to those challenges?

Zick: That’s an easy question, because we’ve just taught this class on that for Moral Revolution. We have an entire community for women. It’s already active and going. And the one for men is going to be opening in early 2022. But we have this program called “Date Well: A Path to Wholeness and Dating.”

We did this live class that literally answers that exact question, is what are the things we’re hearing the most from women that are their challenges, that are their obstacles to really enter the dating scene or feel like they’re doing it well.

There were three things we found, three obstacles to getting going. The first one was dealing with past pain. Basically, there is this lack of confidence in dating, and so, we’re trying to find the root of, what is that lack of confidence coming from? The first one we found is past pain. That could look like trauma from your past, like me, that I wouldn’t have even known to give it that language until I was in counseling years later. That could simply look like just heartbreak from a past relationship. So, past pain was one of them.

The second one would be cycles, unhealthy cycles. Again, this could be a cycle that you’re just finding yourself in most recently, where you’re like, “Oh, wow, I keep going for the bad guys” or “I keep being just fooled.” Or it could be literally a cycle that’s been passed down from your family, where you’re like, “My mom cheated on my dad. I’m finding myself constantly cheating.” Finding out what those unhealthy cycles are in your life.

Then the third one was insecurity, and realizing that there’s either insecurity in yourself, which could literally just be in your body, in your appearance, in the external. What’s on the inside, where you’re like, “Oh, maybe I just feel like I believe the lie of I am just a pretty face, and I don’t know what’s going on inside,” or just insecurity in the whole dating process, which could be found in believing a lie like, “All men are monsters. Every guy is going to be the same.”

So, you’re just insecure about the whole process.

The solutions that we’ve taught on those things that … . Again, it was an hourlong class, so I’m going to go really fast, and this is still just touching the surface, which is why we created “Date Well.”

The first one for past pain is realizing we have to forgive and release, to really go into those moments. A lot of times, I think we try to move over it really fast. We’re like, “OK, I forgive that person.” But really going in and sitting with it, and maybe getting out a journal and being like, “This is what I forgive them for. This is what they did to me. This is what they said to me. This is the way it made me feel,” and really forgiving and releasing until it loses that sting, and knowing it doesn’t mean it’s building back trust with that person. It just means you are moving from that bitterness and that unforgiveness that’s probably eating away at you on the inside.

So, that’s one of the solutions for past pain.

For the unhealthy cycles is just realizing we cannot figure out what it is like. It’s kind of like saying we can’t figure out what’s holding us … . We can’t be set free until we know what’s holding us hostage. So, we have to be able to look and see what the cycles are, and sometimes we’re so blind to our own blind spots and our own cycles that you could probably ask a friend and be like, “What cycles do you see in my life?”

So, really creating a timeline of your life from the entrance of sexuality or the entrance of relationships until now, and going year by year, month by month, whatever that looks like for you, and building a timeline of your sexuality and dating relationships and saying, “Wow, look at the cycles here.” So, the first step would just be identifying them, because you can’t break them until you identify them.

Then that insecurity, the solution for that that we present is definitely the thing we started this conversation with, is finding out what your core values are. My co-director of “Date Well,” Sloane Wilson, she shares this amazing story where she gets off of this terrible date where she was so nervous. She was like, “He was the hottest guy I’ve ever gone on a date with. I was so nervous. I wasn’t acting like myself. I get in the car afterwards,” and she’s like, “That was a mess. That was a total train wreck. What was I doing? I [wasn’t] myself.”

She pulled her rearview mirror up, and she turns it down and she looks at herself, and she starts saying who she is. She starts saying what she believes about herself, like, “No, I am this. I am that.” It was just this moment that was very organic, but we realized on the inside that’s what we need, is no matter what, we can look ourselves in the mirror and be like, “This is who I am. This is what I’m worthy of,” and we can build our confidence, even in the most insecure, messy moments.

Allen: That’s so practical and so good. Yes, these are all such important things you’re doing, and they’re practical. We talk about, OK, we want to navigate dating well and these big topics, but you need practical tools to help you do that. So, Cait, I think that’s superhelpful, just very down-to-earth things that we can be actually doing on a daily basis in our lives, practicing forgiveness, practicing speaking truth over ourselves. That’s so good.

When it comes to, OK, I may be growing as a person. I’m looking for someone to date. A challenge that I think many young people face is just, how do I actually find those good people out there? Do you have any tips or wisdom on how we can, in the world of dating apps and all the craziness, how do we actually locate those good people?

Zick: Yes, that’s a great question. A couple of tips we share inside of “Date Well” would be to ask friends to hook you up on a blind date, so asking people you trust, that know you well, and saying, “Hey, I’m willing to take the risk.” I think we have to, as women, lower the stakes, because I think the tendency is a coffee date, is like I’m saying yes to a relationship, or you’re picturing marriage, and you’re signing your last name. And you’re like, “No, I’m just trying to have a cup of coffee with somebody.”

So, it’s just realizing we have to lower the stakes, so that as we’re entering into this dating scene, we’re not hanging our hat on all this. We’re really seeing, “Wow, I just need to get better at talking to a guy and being able to really communicate well and connect well.”

So, asking friends. You’re probably like, “Nope, I would never do that. I won’t trust them.” You’re not asking them to find your future mate. You’re asking them to set you down for coffee with somebody or dinner. I think that’s a really good practical tool, is asking people you know, “Hey, is there somebody you trust and you like? You don’t have to say they’re perfect. You don’t need to know their whole sexual history. Just that you think is a great guy that you could set me up on a date with?”

Another one would be online dating. We give a lot of just tips and tricks inside of “Date Well” on online dating and just trying to remove any negative stigma that people might have there, that there are good apps, that they’re not all just hookup culture, and how to present yourself there.

Even I can think of this other organization, “Heart of Dating,” they have a “Drop the Hanky” program. One of my single friends was just texting me, “Should I try this?” I’m like, “Yeah.” I said, “If it was me, I would. What’s the risk?”

I think just really realizing, put yourself out there. You can show a little interest. If you have a guy friend at work or church, or wherever, that you’ve connected with. I think the other lie women believe is all of the pursuit has to be on them. I agree, we want to, as women, be pursued, but you could show a little interest. You could just put a little thing out there to see if he bites.

That’s actually how I got with my husband. We were friends. I’m sure I was in the friend zone. And I just said—I don’t even remember exactly what I said. It was embarrassing, probably. It was like, “I used to like you.” Again, I was 17, so forgive me. But I think it was the first time he even thought, “Oh, wow.” Then he started pursuing me so beautifully.

I think just also overcoming that lie of, “I have to just wait. I can’t be like, ‘Oh, would you want to go to coffee?’ or ‘I would love to get to know you better,'” or whatever. “‘I’d love to connect with you.'” So, yeah, just really overcoming some of those obstacles to you.

Allen: Well, and I will echo what you say about being willing to ask people that you trust around you to set you up on blind dates. It was probably two years ago, I had that revelation of “OK, wait a second. If literally millions of young people all over America are trusting an algorithm through a dating app to set them up on dates, why wouldn’t I trust the people in my life who I trust and who love me, and who I love them?” Yeah, I’ve let people know that I trust at church and family members, like, “Hey, if you have good guys, let me know. I will go on blind dates.”

I think it’s just practical. It just makes sense.

But I have found myself in the same conversation, gosh, I don’t even know how many times, with a group of single women. We’re all sitting around, having coffee, eating chocolate at night, and the question comes up, “Where are the good men? Why are there so many single women, great single women, intelligent women, women who love the Lord, and it just seems like guys aren’t pursuing?”

Is that the wrong question to be asking, Cait? Is that legitimate? Is there a shortage of good guys, or are we as single women just asking the wrong questions?

Zick: I probably would have people I love that are going to disagree with my answer here, because I know that it sounds very hopeless to be like, “No, I agree with you.” I actually asked my husband this question. I saw on our notes it was like, “Why are there so many single women?” His quick response, which he doesn’t hold any punches, he was like, “Because there’s no dateable men.” I’m like, “Wow, I’m going to quote you, Cole Zick.”

I honestly think that we’ve lost a lot of the, it even feels weird to say, the power, the meaning of masculinity in our generation. I think that’s a huge part. I think if you go really deep into the roots of this stuff, I think it’s fatherlessness. I think it’s broken homes. I also think it has a lot to do with the way culture has depicted men.

I can’t name a TV show that I grew up watching that celebrated men. They were always either idiots or liars or cheaters or drunks or just goofballs. You know what I mean? So, there’s just this imagery that we’ve been lacking.

Then, honestly, our biggest root that we see in what’s affected everybody, it’s not just men, but statistically many men, is pornography. Pornography has created this other universe of reality. It’s not real, but it’s people entering into this for whatever reason. We could go into that forever.

There’s an amazing documentary that just released this past month called “Raised on Porn.” It’s by Exodus Cry. You can find it on YouTube. I highly recommend every single person to watch that. I’ve never seen porn personally in my life, and neither has my husband. It doesn’t matter if you’ve seen it. It doesn’t matter if you’re currently addicted to it. It doesn’t matter if you’ve overcome that.

Whatever your story is, every human being should watch this because we need to see how it’s affecting our generation and how it’s affecting us from a young age.

What’s very helpful also in watching that documentary is, instead of looking at broken men, which is the reality sometimes if you’re like, “Wow, there’s just a lot of men that are still struggling, still messed up, want weird things,” it’s realizing, “Oh, wow, we need to look back at that nine-year-old boy who got introduced to this.”

It unpacks the science of what’s happening in their brains and why there’s actual addiction going on here, why it’s changed their brain. I just think it gives a lot of understanding of what we’re living in right now and why we need to stop it. Their whole purpose is protect children not born, and how do we protect children from this? But really realizing, I think, it helps in dating.

There’s another documentary by Fight the New Drug called “Brain, Heart, World,” another amazing documentary to watch, to be like, “Wow, this is the world we’re living in. This is how it’s affected their brains, their hearts, and then the world, and the society we’re living in.”

I really think that that’s a root cause, not only for the dating scenario we’re in, but a lot of failed marriages. I think large percentages have pornography, either past or current struggle, that affects the divorce and divorce rate.

Allen: For all of our single female listeners who are now a little bit discouraged, what is your encouragement to them for how we as single women can be putting ourselves in good positions to be preparing ourselves for marriage, or even, I guess, maybe holding that intention and just storing our hearts well in this season, asking good questions?

Zick: Yeah. If you’re a believer, then I’m like, “Pray for your future husband.” I remember telling girls when we were youth pastors for years, the girls that just can’t stop thinking about it. I’m like, “Just have a journal that’s literally just your ‘Prayer for Your Husband’ journal.” I’m like, “And then one day, you can give it to him.”

Let it all out there, too, for the Lord. You have to be able to have a safe space to let it out. So if you’re a believer, I’m like, “Go into the prayer closet on this, just really giving it all to Him. Our hope is in Him.” You’re doing what you can. I don’t know, my personality, I’m like, “I want to be in control of every thing.” This is something it’s really hard to be in control of. So, praying about it.

Then I think, going back to what we said, of continuing to put yourself out there and risk it, because it’s so funny, we have these healthy boundaries that are so important, but sometimes we create walls instead of boundaries. When you hear something like this about, “Wow, so many men are impacted by this,” don’t just be filled with discouragement. We have so many testimonies of men and women who have truly overcome it and been set free.

We have a couple on our podcast, if you want to listen to it, of he was addicted. And when you hear his story … Because you’re like, “How did this happen? How did he cheat on his wife?” and you just want to hate him. Then you hear his story of how he was introduced by his stepfather as a young child, and just like, “Oh, wow. It was a medication for him.” Then you’re like, “Oh, this can be healed. This can be corrected.” It just takes somebody being really intentional to pursue growth.

So, I think praying, finding hope-filled stories, putting that in front of yourself, and then continuing to put yourself in really good community, that you’re learning how to get your needs met in a healthy way, so that you’re not setting yourself up to be in a co-dependent relationship when you find somebody. I think that’s also a huge struggle right now, is women feeling like, “Oh, I’m just going to have to settle.”

You’re not going to have to settle. You’re going to make sure that you know how to get your needs met. You know who you are. You know what you believe. You know your core values, and you know what you bring to the table.

Then, when you meet that man, if he has a past … My thing would be, I want women to be educated on what that looks like, because I think historically, if I go back 15 years, to a couple of my friends got married to a man who struggled with porn, the conversation was, “I used to struggle with it.” No, you still struggle with it. It’s still a thing. You’re having sex inside of marriage with other people.

It’s just because we didn’t have the tools and the understanding. I think now we do have. There’s so many tools. There’s so many paths to freedom. There’s so much more understanding of what’s going on in the brain and science, which I think actually brings so much hope, of knowing there’s a path to healing, and there’s a path to wholeness.

So, being educated on it, being aware, like I said, not creating walls around it, having healthy boundaries like, “Oh, wow, if he’s currently struggling, it’d probably be good for him to get into counseling or get into a program that’s going to help him so that he can be in a healthy relationship with you.” I think the wall would be, “I will never be with somebody who’s ever struggled.” The percentages are, it’s 94% will see it by 18—94%. So, you can’t create walls.

You’ve got to have hope in front of you, hope of healthy relationships and marriages after this, hope of what you want and what you’re looking for, and then just staying faithful, to say, “Lord, I put this in your hands,” and then having really good, healthy community to say, “Will you help me find somebody? Be praying with me. Be with me on this journey.”

Allen: Yeah. That’s huge. That community aspect makes such a difference.

Let’s do a lightning round of advice. I want to ask you for three different groups of people. For those who are dating, who are entering the dating scene, what is one really great piece of advice that you would give young folks who are dating?

Secondly, for married couples, what is a great piece of advice that has helped you and Cole in your marriage to foster a really happy, healthy, strong connection?

Then, for parents who are trying to navigate, “OK, how do I talk about sex with my child? How do I navigate as they’re starting to date?” So, we’ll start first with advice for singles or young folks who are dating.

Zick: When you are dating, and you’re looking for somebody, you’re not just looking for somebody that you are attracted to, that you think checks your boxes. You’re looking for somebody that makes you happy, that you’re going to have lots of fun with, that you can laugh with, but also that that future person is going to raise children with you.

So, ask yourself that, because a lot of times we have this dreamboat idea of who we want, but really knowing, “No, I’m looking for a whole-hearted man, and what does that look like?”

I think actually the most common question I’ve gotten recently from single women on that is, “What if I’m not superattracted to him at first?” I’m like, “No, that kind of stuff can grow.” We’re just believing the lie from movies of it’s just fireworks right away, and you just can’t help yourself. I’m like, “No, that stuff can grow, so, you’re looking for a man that you want to do the rest of your life with, raise a family with, and there you go.”

Allen: So good. All right. OK, so now for married individuals who might be listening, what is a great piece of advice for how they can keep love alive, make marriage exciting, and always keep it fresh and beautiful?

Zick: Don’t settle for less than God’s best for your sex life. Sex is supposed to be a beautiful, intimate, connecting, powerful, bonding moment. I’ve realized over the years that there are layers that I had to peel off of me from past experiences, from what I’ve believed from media, from what I’ve watched on TV shows.

I’ve had to get to the core of this eye contact, beautiful, intimate connection with my husband. It’s taken years of hard work, years of counseling for me. But just saying, the reason that I did all of those things was because I refused to settle for less than God’s best for my sex life, and now we’re experiencing the most amazing, intimate thing, that it’s not a performance. It’s not perversion. It’s intimate connection and bonding that you have with nobody else on the earth.

Allen: So good. And what about for parents who are thinking, “Oh, gosh, I know I need to be talking to my child about this, but that feels big, and it feels scary”? How do they go about having conversations about relationships, about sex?

Zick: Parents, sex is not a bad word. You should be saying sex in your house. It’s from heaven. It’s not from hell. You have to talk about sex, sexuality, body parts. Don’t shame body parts. You’re going to be able to create a culture of conversations around sexuality all of the time, creating this safe space that your kids know they want to go to you when they have a question, not the Google [search] bar and not a friend.

To do that, we have to be able to create that safe space of knowing that we are a safe home to talk about this in, that it’s not a bad word, that we’re open to conversations at any time, that we don’t just hide away from it, shy away from it, say, “Talk to your dad about it.” We hold space for those conversations. Then you can join us at Parent Well, because that’s our other community that we have specifically for parents on raising kids in a hypersexualized culture.

Allen: Yeah. For our listeners, I do want to let them know you are a mom, you have kids, so this is coming both from your personal experience as a mom and, obviously, all of the research, your own personal journey that you have done, working with so many other parents. Cait, that’s fantastic. Thank you.

Now, before we let you go, there’s one question we love to ask all of our listeners on this show, our first-time guests, and that is: Do you consider yourself a feminist? Yes or no? Why or why not?

Zick: Funny story. My first Sunday morning ever preaching at a church, I said something about how I used to be a Feminazi, and I think that’s why I’ve never been invited back. Basically, that was my upbringing. Yeah, I’m so about the empowerment of women. Because I quickly got into the church scene at 16, I wanted to see women leading. I’m all for women. My husband and I are total partners in everything we do.

But I would say the cultural term of feminist, I would say no, I’m not. I would love to reclaim some of that and see it used like I think … . There’s a book called “Jesus Feminist.” I don’t know if I agree with the whole book or not, I haven’t read it, but that idea, the concept of saying the way Jesus promoted women. There’s an amazing book called “Fashioned to Reign” by Kris Vallotton, who’s our founder of Moral Revolution. That’s the type of belief in empowerment of women I have, but probably not the cultural term around it.

Allen: Yeah. Excellent. Cait, tell us how we can follow what you’re up to, follow you on Instagram, get involved with the work of Moral Revolution, be a part of “Date Well.” How do we find all these resources?

Zick: Amazing. You can find me @caitlinzick on Instagram. You can find my book “Look at You, Girl” on Amazon. You can “Prime” it to your door. You can find all of that there. Then, Moral Revolution is on Instagram, like I said, in five different languages. You can go to You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, all of the things, podcast. You can find all of that there. “Date Well,” “Parent Well,” you’ll be able to find it all on our website.

Allen: Excellent. Cait, thank you so much for your time. This has been superfun.

Zick: Yes. Thanks for having me, Virginia. This was amazing.

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