Sean Spicer wants you to take President Joe Biden at his word—his policy agenda really will radically transform America as we know it.
Spicer’s new book, “Radical Nation: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris’s Dangerous Plan for America,” details the Biden administration’s agenda and how it is already proving disastrous. He also provides readers with a road map for doing something about it.
“[F]or the next three years, we’re going to be dealing with Joe Biden,” Spicer tells The Daily Signal. “You better know who these policies and people are that he’s pursuing. Because as I said, if we don’t look right now and engage, we are going to end up with a radical nation.”
Not long ago, Spicer was sparring with the media as White House press secretary under President Donald Trump. Today, he’s host of “Spicer & Co.” on Newsmax and a bestselling author. He shares what life it like behind the camera and how he approaches the news each day.
Listen to the podcast below or read the lightly edited transcript.
Rob Bluey: We are joined on “The Daily Signal Podcast” today by Sean Spicer. He’s the host of “Spicer & Co.” on Newsmax in the 6 p.m. hour and he’s the author of the new book “Radical Nation: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris’s Dangerous Plan for America.” Sean, it is an honor to have you on “The Daily Signal Podcast.”
Sean Spicer: Oh, thank you. Good to see you, Rob.
Bluey: Yeah, it’s great to see you. This is your third book.
Spicer: I know. Crazy.
Bluey: So, you’re a New York Times bestselling author now.
Spicer: Two things I never thought would happen.
Bluey: That’s right. Well, let’s delve into it, because you write in the book that the Biden-Harris agenda would radically transform America.
Spicer: Yeah. But the thing that’s interesting, Rob, is that may be the name of the book, but those are what they said. And this is what I think is overlooked in this administration, is they’ve told us so much of what they want to do, and I think for a lot of reasons, which made sense, people sort of said, like, “Oh, well, we’ve known Biden for a long time. That’s not going to happen.” Republicans and Democrats have both said, “We’ve known him. He’s been in D.C. for half a century.”
But when Joe Biden said, “I’m going to be the most progressive president ever,” I don’t think people took him seriously. And you look at what’s been going on in Washington, he consistently sides with the far left, he’s putting more and more people from the far left into his Cabinet.
So, I don’t look at this as some kind of like incendiary thing. This is literally what he said he’s going to do. In fact, he doubled down the other day when he talked about his legislation, right? He said, “If we pass my two things, the 1.2 and the 3.5, we will fundamentally change the structure and nature of the economy.” That’s not me, that’s him. He’s telling us what he wants to do, but for some reason, folks in the media, folks in the left, and some folks on the right on Capitol Hill don’t believe that.
Bluey: What was the biggest thing in doing the research for the book that you discovered about Biden or the issues or the people that he surrounded himself with?
Spicer: I think all of the above. I mean, it was funny because for the aforementioned reasons, I thought, “OK, I’ve been in D.C. for a while. I’ve known Joe Biden.” But I started doing research, it was my first job on Capitol Hill for the NRSC, the National Republican Senatorial Committee, doing research on senators. So I thought, “OK, I know these guys. It’s been a while, but I’ve seen him around. He was vice president.”
One of the chapters in the book is called “Biden Inc.” You look at his brother, Frank, and we all know about Hunter. When you start looking at some of the business deals that were conducted early on in his career and that his family glommed onto, it starts to go, “Wow, this isn’t just a new phenomenon, that’s happened.”
Then you start to look at the people that he’s surrounded with in the White House, in his Cabinet. Same thing. Some of their backgrounds was just, you’re going, “There’s no way.” How did we not have the discussion in terms of the qualifications or lack thereof that some of these people have had to serve a government?
And then the last thing is just some of the policies. We were having this discussion on my show probably a month ago. It was about abortion, and we were talking about Biden’s position because he was coming out and saying that some of these Texas laws were over the top.
And I said, “Gosh, there’s something at the top of my tongue. And I can’t remember what it is, but I swear Biden said—” and I was like, “Wait a second. It’s my book.” And I went back and there’s a chapter about his evolution of life, if you will.
He used to be a fairly pro-life guy. And he actually defended it very openly, talking about the fact that he believed that life began at conception. … Literally on my show that night I’m pulling out an excerpt from my own book saying, “This is what he said to a Catholic newspaper: ‘Life begins at conception.'” And now he mocks people who believe that.
Bluey: Yeah. I mean, you’ve worked in Republican politics for a long time, as you mentioned. Certainly with Donald Trump or George W. Bush or you name any Republican, I mean, there is a deep dive that the news media usually takes to vet that candidate. It just seems like Joe Biden didn’t go—
Spicer: But see, this is where I’ll disagree. I’ve spent two cycles, six years at the [Republican National Committee] where part of what I did was oversee the research department. I worked at the research division of the National Republican Senatorial Committee. It is those operatives that give it to the media. The media rarely does anything but accept it, right? So, an investigative reporter at ABC News is someone who talks to opposition researchers, takes it, and puts it on air.
Bluey: Good point.
Spicer: They rarely do their own work. But to your point, I think that there was this belief that we know everything we know about Joe Biden. He’s a known factor, therefore, I mean, think about it.
By the way, what happened though last year? There was a story about Hunter Biden and the New York Post blew it out and everybody canceled it, censored it. So, when we did find out new things about Joe Biden, it was Big Tech and Big Media that said, “We’re not going to allow you to hear that story.”
Bluey: That’s a fair point.
Spicer: So, part of it is that there is a suppression. And when you read, whether it’s, I mentioned Denis McDonough in the book, his lack of qualifications to lead the [Department of Veterans Affairs]; Pete Buttigieg, his qualifications or lack thereof to lead the Department of Transportation. …
And think about this, why is Susan Rice, Ambassador Susan Rice, who’s the national security adviser, all of her background is in foreign policy, in national security, and yet they named her the domestic policy, right? Because they had nowhere else to put her. She can’t get Senate-confirmed, so they give her a job in the White House that’s not really her wheelhouse, but we have to find somewhere to put her. But that’s what’s going on in this White House. And when you look at it and you read the stuff, you go, “That doesn’t make any sense,” then you get it.
Bluey: And you talk about how the White House has gone after some conservatives, yourself included, for your service on the Military Academy Board, as citing qualifications. Well, they themselves don’t have the qualifications.
Spicer: Right. Exactly. Think about this. You’ve got someone like—and again, I’ll give a little bit of a pass to Hunter Biden in the sense that he wasn’t a government employee, right? … But what qualifications did he have to serve on the board of Burisma, these other energy things?
But then go inside a government, how does Denis McDonough get qualified to be the secretary of veterans affairs without ever serving the military, ever working with veterans groups, no background in health care, no background in mortgage lending, I mean, the two big things the VA does? And yet he’s leading the VA because, “oh, well, he was [former President Barack] Obama’s chief of staff, we need to find a place for him.”
You’ll look at Kamala Harris’ background, which I have a whole chapter in here. People need to understand who this person is that’s vice president and potentially, God forbid, something happens to our president, she becomes president. You better know who she is because when you read about her history in California, who she prosecuted, some of the things that she was against and for, I mean, the level of flip-flop in hypocrisy is astronomical.
Bluey: Sean, shifting a little bit from the personalities and the politicians to some of the issues, I want to start with the economy, because you served in the Trump administration as a White House press secretary and you were part of a team that built just a roaring economy, deregulation, tax cuts. I mean, all of those great things that happened under President Trump’s watch, and here you have what really seems to be a conflict and between big government socialism from Biden-Harris and the future of free market capitalism, if there’s going to be such a thing. What is really at stake here?
Spicer: You just put your finger on the name of the book, right? This is a radical, radical plan to change our nation. And I don’t think people fully appreciate that, again, because we’ve been given all of these stories and anecdotes and imagery of who Joe Biden is. The reality is they get it, he wants a legacy, and the legacy is to alter the course of this country to become the most progressive president ever.
Keep in mind, their ultimate goal is power, and the power allows them to implement the policies because whether it’s immigration, make no mistake about it, if you want to stop immigration in this country, you can do it in a second. Trump showed us how to do it. Title 42, Remain in Mexico, etc., they undid it. The only reason why is to bring new people in. They’ve already started talking about [Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals] for Afghans.
If our side doesn’t get it, every time a conservative says Kamala Harris isn’t doing her job at the border, I laugh and I go, “Yes, she is. It just depends on how you view her job.” Her job is to create new voters. Why do they want to pack the court? Why do they want to make DC a state? All of this is in pursuit of an ultimate power grab to ensure that they can put all those policies in place.
Bluey: And one of those other issues is election reform.
Bluey: And they have HR 1, the … misnamed For the People Act, and all sorts of other things that they would like to accomplish. Newsmax and your show has been one of the outlets that, fortunately, is out there providing the truth about what’s really going on in our country. What is at stake when it comes to our elections?
Spicer: Everything. And I will say this, [The Heritage Foundation], it’s an enormous resource, the election center that’s on the web. I mean, when people tell you fraud doesn’t exist, go to the Heritage homepage and look at it, it exists, and the work that Hans [von Spakovsky] and so many of the people here do to highlight it, because the media doesn’t want to tell you about it.
The last few days you see all of these stories about Republicans and folks on the right want to make it harder to vote. That’s not [true], it is the biggest, biggest misnomer going.
During a pandemic, we allowed people to do things, including work from home, and if your employer says that you need to come back to work, that doesn’t mean that you’re suppressing them. That means this is how it was.
So not allowing people to drive through and drop off their ballot in the middle of the night to ballot harvest ballots, everything that the left is doing—why don’t you need an ID? Again, it doesn’t make common sense unless there’s an ultimate goal at hand, and I believe that anybody who doesn’t believe that the Democrats know what they’re doing is sadly mistaken.
Bluey: You mentioned immigration before border security. It’s one of the, as you indicated, one of the success stories of the Trump administration, being able to put in place not only new policies to help control the flow, but also building the wall. We’ve seen the Biden administration go in a completely opposite direction, now have manufactured a crisis that didn’t exist before. How do you see this ending?
Spicer: I don’t. I mean, look, here’s the problem … you signal through your policies. Day One, Trump came in, said, “I’m going to do this. I’m going to build a wall. I’m going to make it harder.” People stop coming because why bother making the trek? It’s not easy. I feel for some of these folks that get bought into this.
But when the Biden administration on the one hand says, “Don’t come,” and on the other hand winks and nods and says, “But don’t worry, if you come, we’re going to let you in. We’ll give you a blanket, a hotel room, and all these nice goodies,” what do you think they’re going to do? And the reality is the Biden administration has created an environment where people are rewarded for coming to this country.
And again, I think that they want this to happen. There’s an easy way to stop it, they know how to do it, and they’ve chosen not to. But I think that people, again, if you look back at the numbers, we’re talking tens of thousands of people. Right now in the month of October, they’re estimating 350,000 people illegally crossing our border: 350,000, think about that. You do it two more times, you got Delaware, Rhode Island, Montana, Wyoming. I mean, this is real stuff. And couple that with everything else that’s going on in the country.
The problem that I have with so many of the policies, including immigration, is that if you don’t stop them when they’re happening, by the time you wake up, it’s too late. So in 10 years from now, I guarantee it, play this podcast back then, we will be talking about DACA and a path to citizenship for every single person who came in now because, quote, “It’s not fair.”
Spicer: That’s what they’re going to say. Once you’re in the country, after you’ve been in here for five years, you came in through, quote, “No fault of your own,” and now we need to give you citizenship.
Bluey: The numbers that you mentioned are truly staggering and unprecedented in many cases. One last issue I want to ask you about, and that is the big Supreme Court case coming up on Dec. 1, the Dobbs case. This could hold the future of Roe v. Wade in the balance. One of the things that President Trump was enormously successful at was appointing judges to the bench, including the Supreme Court. Any thoughts on what we are headed for? Obviously, we probably have to wait until June of 2022 for a decision, right? But what is the outlook from this?
Spicer: Well, first of all, let me just say that aside from watching or being obsessed with “Law & Order,” I have no legal training. The particulars of the case are, I think, always where it goes, and if you look at the court over history, it sometimes will take a very narrow view. Yes, we have, in theory, a six-three majority, but I think how it looks at this is going to be important.
The thing that I think is on our side is science. More and more, we’re seeing the viability of life. And as these states start saying, 14 weeks, 16 weeks, 20 weeks, in various scenarios, it becomes harder to say that we don’t, as a country, have a need to protect life.
So I think what’s going to happen, and again, it depends on where the court comes down on this in terms of how narrow does it look at it, but … remember, the other thing is, is that Roe basically doesn’t mean that abortion is outlawed. Again, it just means it goes back to the states where, frankly, as a country, we should be having more discussion of policy at the state level. And if that’s what makes people move, great, right? So lower taxes, better schools, I mean, all of these things get factored into why people move to a place.
Spicer: And so if you want to live in a blue state that allows you to do more stuff, then so be it, but I think that in states that want to protect, stand up for it, that’s great. But I think there is a lot at stake because when you look at, I think Roe was wrongly decided in the first place. And when you look at the regret that occurred out of that case, this could right a wrong.
And again, it’s not outlawing anything, it’s just allowing states to then have a say, which, they frankly should be from the beginning. But I think that this is going to be beyond the policy piece.
What’s going to fascinate me as a political junkie is the political implications. I think that the left actually looks at this as a huge win for them, that if they can start to campaign on this, that’s a big thing. I think there are some Republicans that are scared of having to address this. And frankly, part of me thinks, “Great, good for you.” It’s like when we dealt with health care, everyone said, “We want to get rid of Obamacare,” until we had to get rid of Obamacare, then you had to really stand up and figure out whether you were going to fight.
I think that Republicans and folks on the right should be willing to fight for this, and I’m hoping that the court comes down on that. The beautiful thing is when you’ve got six-three, you don’t have to get all six, right? I mean, you can get, you could go to a five-four.
I think that [Justices] Amy Coney Barrett and [Brett] Kavanaugh in particular are two justices that I think, based on their previous judicial writings and case law, I can see them going down. [Justice Neil] Gorsuch I’m just not as familiar with, although we could see that one, you could end up with the six-three.
But I feel very good about going to this case and I think that there’s going to be more. … You’ve got Mississippi, Arkansas, and potentially Texas. So if the court doesn’t hit it at one point, I think by the time they’re done with all three, I think you’ll have an answer. It may just take a little longer than we wanted.
Bluey: Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s certainly something that we will be watching closely.
Spicer: But again, I will just say this, Rob, because you mentioned this, that when you do look at a guy like Biden who goes in there and starts talking about how he’s such a champion of this, that’s not where he was.
And for folks on the right, the one thing that I’ll say is important about the book, when we fight on the right, the facts are on our side, the policies are on our side. We just need to make those arguments more crisp or more consistent. The thing is, if you can walk in and say, “Really? Because here’s what Joe Biden said. Here’s what he believes. Here’s how he’s articulated that—”
What they want to do is the left wins when we don’t have our facts together, when we don’t articulate our side as well as we can. And I think that the beautiful thing about when I wrote “Radical Nation” was that I gave people road map and said, “If you want to fight and win, then here you go.”
Bluey: Yeah. And the other thing, Sean, I’ll point out is I think Americans are craving for a place where they can get that information and your show “Spicer & Co.,” 6 pm on Newsmax, is a place to do that. I mean, that’s one of the reasons why we created The Daily Signal, we wanted to create an alternative.
Spicer: I’ve mentioned to you earlier that we didn’t have the biggest audience when we first launched, and I’m sure you guys didn’t at The Daily Signal, but as people find out about it, it’s the word of mouth. People, more than anything, we don’t do a ton of advertising at Newsmax, I don’t think you guys do at Heritage, so it’s word of mouth.
When people say, “You know what? I just heard a great episode, you should tune in.” That’s where I think it’s amazing because it truly is person-to-person, whether it’s through social media and email or personal contact where they’re saying, “You got to watch this.” That’s what’s cool about this, is knowing that I don’t have the ad budget, or the network doesn’t, of a CNN or an ABC, but we’re growing because we found something that people want.
Bluey: Yeah, and you’ve overtaken Fox Business and CNBC. What do you attribute the success to? Is it your approach to the news and how you—
Spicer: Well, I think there’s two things. I mean, one, look, I think the network, Newsmax, has done a lot in terms of making itself accessible. You don’t need a cable subscription to go find it. Two is that I think we do have the hosts and we cover the issues that other people don’t. And then, with respect to my show in particular and why I think it’s done as well as it has, is because of how we cover issues and who we cover them with.
I like to tell people, “Every night at 6 o’clock, we’re going to have the conversation that I think you would probably have at dinner. And we’re going to ask the questions to the people that you would say, ‘You know who I’d love to ask the questions.'”
But government leaders, we do have journalists on, I even have Democrats on. And I think sometimes the audience gets a little frustrated, but part of me is [like], if you’re sitting at home, saying, “How can that left-wing guy say this?”, well, I’m going to ask the question for you, because I want to hear how they justify it. And I think that’s important because our side needs to understand what they’re thinking and therefore how we can articulate arguments that outdo them.
So part of this is to have a conversation with people. We don’t yell at people, we’re not into going off on rants and stuff. But if you tune in at six o’clock, I think you’ll learn something, you’ll find it entertaining. We have fun, we have some pretty interesting guests from time to time, and we cover stuff sometimes.
We did a whole show with [Rep.] Matt Gaetz on “Free Britney.” But it was fascinating to hear why a South Florida congressman, or probably more of the central congressman in Florida, cared about the issue. And it was interesting to have that discussion. And he talks about how many older Americans, especially in Florida, because if they would go there to retire, get trapped in these conservatorships.
But it was kind of a cool conversation because I don’t think for many people, until Britney Spears came along, that they had really thought that long and hard about what a conservatorship was, who gets trapped in them, what does it mean for their livelihood? But I learned a lot after this, and I went into it thinking to myself, “I wonder why he supports this?” So it’s fun to have a conversation like that where you’re like, “OK, I just learned something.”
Bluey: You know, it seems that so many people who are hosting programs probably come up through the world of journalism. Obviously, you took a different path to get there. How has that shaped your vision for the show and what you’re trying to do for the audience?
Spicer: I’m glad you highlighted that because it’s interesting. If you’re a journalist, you go through your school and you kind of work your way up. I come to this show, this is a political show, right? It’s pop culture, politics. I’ve worked on Capitol Hill for 10 members of Congress, I worked in the White House, the RNC for six years, 22 years in the military. So I can walk into a discussion knowing how something should work.
Now I can ask you the tactics on why you guys are doing this or that if you’re a member of Congress or a senator, but I don’t have to guess, and I can push back on a guest and say, “That’s unfortunately not how it used to work,” or, “It’s changed this way,” or, “Didn’t you think that way?”
So I think we have a much more informed discussion because I’ve been in those arenas. I know what it’s like to be on Capitol Hill, I know what it’s like to be in a campaign, I know what it’s like to be in the White House. So when somebody says, “Well, the White House could do X,” I could say, “Actually, they can’t because they’re prohibited. Here’s why,” or, “They should be doing more.” And I think that that creates a much more informed conversation and a discussion that the viewer gets to partake in.
Bluey: I agree. I think people appreciate the different perspective.
Bluey: Now, I have a question for you, though. You made the White House press briefings must-see TV. I mean, there were so many people who tuned in daily. Do you miss that world at all?
Spicer: No. Never.
Spicer: And I’ll tell you why. It’s like when you’re running a race and then you stop for a while. You’re like, “OK.” We were going so fast every day, the intensity, the scrutiny. Rob, I was on Capitol Hill, as I mentioned, for a long time, I was at the RNC for six years. I think I did 500-plus media interviews, and the closest I ever got to being recognized was in the sweater section of a Jos. A. Bank in Alexandria. And that changed real quick when I joined the White House.
I think it’s easy to talk to somebody in theory about what that was like, but until you’ve experienced getting chased out of stores and had people in front of your house, and it’s just not something that I’d want to put myself or my family through again.
I loved being able to serve. It was a dream come true. It wasn’t exactly how I wanted everything to go down at the end. I would’ve loved to have stayed a year. That was sort of my plan. But at the end of the day, that’s not how the world works. … God doesn’t let you pick, he chooses for you.
So I was happy I did it, and I’ve been honored and blessed by what I’ve been able to do since then. I think when people enter that world, they, especially in this day and age, it’s a lot different where you’re, I always thought you’d be C-SPAN famous. People would be like, “Oh, I saw you on C-SPAN 3 during that.” And it changed real quick.
So for that reason, I’ve told people I’d love to, I’ll support whoever the nominee is, especially if it’s President Trump, but I’ll let someone else take the turn.
Bluey: Yeah, yeah. Well, Sean, I’ll give you the final word. Again, the book is called “Radical Nation.” It’s available wherever books are sold and on Amazon. What do you want readers of the book to take away? Why should they get a copy?
Spicer: Well, first of all, as we head into the holiday season, you’re going to be sitting around those tables with the crazy left-wing uncle or aunt, this is a time to sit back and to make sure that you know how to fight and win.
Chapter 20 in the book is literally a road map for if you’re a parent who’s worried about your kids, if you are someone who wants to get more engaged in your community, it gives you some things that you can be doing in your community, in your life to make you more informed and rare.
But aside from that, for the next three years, we’re going to be dealing with Joe Biden. You better know who these policies and people are that he’s pursuing. Because as I said, if we don’t look right now and engage, we are going to end up with a radical nation, which is why the book is called “Radical Nation.” We have a choice. We have an opportunity. The question is, do we take it? So read it, understand what’s at stake, understand who the players are, and be ready to engage and fight back.
Bluey: What’s the best place that they can get a copy?
Spicer: The easiest place, I mean, first of all, you can go to seanspicer.com, but you also can go to newsmax.com/23 or go to Amazon. I don’t know why they chose 23, but Newsmax just made it easy, so that literally will link to Amazon. So all those things end up at Amazon. Obviously, go to a bookstore. But for people who are like, “That link is really long,” … you go to seanspicer.com or newsmax.com/23.
Bluey: Excellent. Well, we will make sure that we provide a link in the show notes. Again, the book is called “Radical Nation: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris’s Dangerous Plan for America.” Sean Spicer is the host of “Spicer & Co.” at Newsmax, 6 pm nightly. Sean, thanks so much for being with The Daily Signal.
Spicer: Gladly. Appreciate it, Rob.
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